OpenXTalk Lite 0.91 Windows ...nearly

Any Bug Fixes to OpenXTalk should get listed here so we can keep a list and offer thanks to contributors!
TerryL
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.91 Windows ...nearly

Post by TerryL »

@ tperry2x. Here's a google share link to .txt and .odt files so you can make your own Release Notes.pdf.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OcNNhK ... sp=sharing
Congratulations on creating an OXT Lite Windows .92 install and enabling 32-bit Mac standalones, outstanding. I'll update my website with your three platform download links. Thank you for your time and effort. Terry

@ Richard (Third World). Do you think LiveCode Ltd would consider updating and compiling the Community 9.6.3 Engine for MacOS 14 and Apple Silicon in exchange for a $ fee? This would solve many problems. I think you'd be the appropriate person to approach them. Does anyone have an objection?
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.91 Windows ...nearly

Post by FourthWorld »

TerryL wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:38 pm @ Richard (Third World). Do you think LiveCode Ltd would consider updating and compiling the Community 9.6.3 Engine for MacOS 14 and Apple Silicon in exchange for a $ fee? This would solve many problems. I think you'd be the appropriate person to approach them. Does anyone have an objection?
It's Fourth World. Third World is too classy for me. :)

I've had almost no contact with anyone at LC Ltd since they discontinued to open source edition. If memory serves, I've had only one brief phone call with Kevin more than a year ago, and it was about other things.

So I'm in no position to speak for them, of course, tho I suppose with enough funding anything's possible.

But I'd guess it would have to be pretty sizable funding. Their normal rates are way higher than US averages (the benefits of being the Mother Ship), and given the perceived strategic disadvantage of an open source version for them I'd guess they'd ask for not just direct cost but also opportunity cost (that is, total imagined sales lost by the existence of a free version).

There's also the practical matter of forks. While it's not impossible to go back to an old fork to re-fork it, they've been doing so much work since then I imagine it would feel less than exciting to branch backwards for this one task.

And that's if they'd be inclined to consider it at all. They way they left open source closed that world off to them forever. Committed to proprietary as they are, I can't imagine they'd even want to listen to a pitch unless the money was of a magnitude that would transform their company.

You could build a new nonprofit foundation for less.

You could hire a dev for this as a one-off for even less than that (though there are Win and Linux issues that we don't really want to ignore forever).

Where would the money come from, and how much would you anticipate being able to raise?
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tperry2x
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by tperry2x »

TerryL wrote: Thu Oct 05, 2023 7:38 pm Here's a google share link to .txt and .odt files so you can make your own Release Notes.pdf.
Thank you Terry, much appreciated. And thank you for your kind words on my 0.92 efforts. I hope you don't feel like I'm stepping on your toes or anything in adapting your original hacks, with what became 0.91 and now 0.92 – I'm very appreciative of everyone's efforts in moving this forward, so I've been using the 'lite' version as a kind of testbed so we can bring these improvements over to the RC versions that Paul is working on.

Speaking of which, I uploaded the Linux version to my site first thing this morning.
Currently, the mac and linux versions both have file associations to '.oxtstack' files, meaning you can double-click them and they'll open in OpenXTalk Lite.
(The mac version is actually slightly further forward as regards to this, as I'm struggling on getting a document icon recognised on linux).

The linux installer script will now take care of this mimetype allocation, like the registry in Windows and the launchservices database in MacOS.

However, I'm keen not to overwrite anyone's work with mimetypes, as I notice OpenXTalk RC versions also automatically register .oxtstack files in Linux. So, the installer checks to see if .oxtstack files are already specified.

For all the linux-heads out there (myself included), you can check this manually using:
grep 'oxtstack' ~/.config/mimeapps.list
Screenshot at 2023-10-06 06-52-24.png
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If it returns a match, not just an empty line, then there's already something specified in your linux config that handles '.oxtstack'. If this is the case, then the installer doesnt attempt to add anything further.
(Just because otherwise it could get messy with multiple entries conflicting for the same thing).
Also, because I don't want to overwrite anyone's efforts (Paul :D ) with the RC versions. This way, the RC versions will take precident over whatever the Lite version is doing (if both are installed).

On a clean linux test system, that has never encountered OXT in any way, the mimetype file association is handled correctly.

You can simply remove all matches to oxt by running:
pluma ~/.config/mimeapps.list and deleting all the lines that mention 'oxtstack', then saving the file.
(instead of Pluma, use whatever your text editor is: mousepad, gedit etc)

This will remove all file associations for .oxtstack files, meaning you can't right-click and OpenXTalk Lite won't appear as the default option.

So, on the mac side and linux side, this turned out to be easier than I thought.
On the Windows build, I've yet to build in full recognition for .oxtstack files. There's a slight issue where windows 11 stores it's registry keys a bit differently for the education variant of Windows, so I'd like to get my head wrapped around this and further testing on my part is required.

This just means that you can't double-click an .oxtstack and have it open automatically with OpenXTalk Lite on Windows at the moment as I've not yet built this in. It will appear in future, so please be aware of that issue at the moment.

Edit 2:
win-association-got-it.png
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Got it. However, still doesn't set the icon correctly. But that's a work in progress, at least it means you will be able to double-click oxtstacks to open them in OpenXTalk Lite. (I'll put that in my list of changes soon as it's not a deal-breaker for beta software.)

Note to self: I must also remember to change the title of that window to "OpenXTalk file associations"
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.91 Windows ...nearly

Post by richmond62 »

For "pluma" read 'your text editor of choice'.
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tperry2x
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OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by tperry2x »

Haha, yes – I had meant to mention that. Many thanks.
I've edited the original post above.
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OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by tperry2x »

I should also mention, that in this version, I'm trying to move further away from the LC name and their branding.
So neither the app name itself, nor the immediate folder the program is in will show any mention of 'Livecode'.

As such, on the mac, you might want to remove any old version that was previously installed to /Applications
(unless you keep multiple copies for testing purposes). Probably a good idea to move old versions of the app "OpenXTalk Lite [version-number].app" out of your /Applications before attempting to install.

On Linux, if you have previous installs, you might want to open /opt as admin and delete the 'Livecode' folder.

On Windows, you may want to navigate to C:\Program Files\ and delete the old RunRev folder as this is no longer used. (It now rightly puts everything into an 'OpenXTalk' folder instead).

Download links remain the same as in previous versions
Image Mac: https://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/openxtal ... .9-osx.dmg
Image Linux: https://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/openxtal ... 9-linux.7z
Image Windows: https://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/openxtal ... 0.9-win.7z

Install videos and screenshots also at:
https://www.tsites.co.uk/sites/openxtalk/changes/
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by tperry2x »

I have another compare and contrast example: (@Richmond :D )
I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I've not done anything special to the script editor. Why does it look so much better under Linux than under MacOS 10.15?
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When I say 'better' I know that's a matter of opinion, but my biggest bug-bear is that dark mode on the mac is currently turned on, yet OXT seems unaware of this. I have a dark theme (well, a MacOS theme applied on Linux).
Sooo why is OpenXTalk able to render the window colours correctly in Linux and not on mac? All other mac apps are dark, so I wonder if it's simply not natively supported.

I only mention this as I'm aiming for platform consistency.
@Paul, I'll have a look at your RC versions, but can you point me in the right direction as to where you added dark mode support for Mac OS? Which file do I need to edit to begin getting the Mac to support dark mode please?

This might not seem like a big thing, but I'm staring at a lot of code recently, so to have dark mode on the mac would be a real eye-saver.
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.91 Windows ...nearly

Post by micmac »

tperry2x, I had your latest Mac version installed and working :D

Here is one more to hunt down:
Skærmbillede 2023-10-10 kl. 23.28.04.jpg
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by OpenXTalkPaul »

As such, on the mac, you might want to remove any old version that was previously installed to /Applications
(unless you keep multiple copies for testing purposes). Probably a good idea to move old versions of the app "OpenXTalk Lite
Please feel free to take my OXT DPE files! I worked a LOT of this out already (although the Windows OS registry stuff is probably broken) over the past two years. OXT DPE IDE can coexist with LC/LCC no need to delete LCC installs, OXT DPE makes its own folders like "My OpenXTalk" and .openxtalk and uses it's it's own filename extensions (mostly, the exceptions being Extension Builder related), etc. I've made Linux custom .desktop file for to put it in dev category, I have setup files of .AppImage. I have edited mac info.plist updated reverse DNS identifiers where appropriate (org.openxtalk instead of com.livecode), etc.

It's just that I seriously did a LOT of work on this and I hate to see you guys doing it all over again from scratch, makes me feel like I've totally been wasting my time.
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by tperry2x »

OpenXTalkPaul wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 3:02 am I seriously did a LOT of work on this and I hate to see you guys doing it all over again from scratch, makes me feel like I've totally been wasting my time.
Sorry Paul, that wasn't my intention.
There was an error I spotted with your RC appimage version on linux, in so much as it'll keep making desktop entries, so you end up with many many duplicate entries on Linux for the desktop definition.
My installer, and script, will check to see if there's an extension entry already - which IMHO is the preferred method, rather than continuously making duplicate entries.

Also, worth mentioning the windows registry entry does work in my version.
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by tperry2x »

OpenXTalkPaul wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 3:02 am I have edited mac info.plist updated reverse DNS identifiers where appropriate (org.openxtalk instead of com.livecode), etc.
Can you attach that info.plist here please, or send me a download link as to where I can find it in the maze that is github?

Github is (and continues to be) an absolute mystery to me.
I have to use an external site such as https://download-directory.github.io/ to get anything meaningful downloaded from most of it.
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OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by tperry2x »

Hi Richmond.
You reported an issue with the toolbar handle on the left on the mac, not extending all the way down (can't find the original post), so can you try this one attached please?
revmenubar.livecodescript
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.91 Windows ...nearly

Post by richmond62 »

Indeed: the 'thing' looked really odd:
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Screen Shot 2023-10-11 at 10.39.42.png
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BEFORE

and

AFTER
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Aesthetically much better!

BUT . . . on a Mac, at least, surely it should look something like this:
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menuBarEnd.png
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tperry2x
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OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by tperry2x »

Edit: ah, gotcha.
Rounded edges.

I'm thinking of using the info here:
https://lessons.livecode.com/m/4071/l/6 ... ndow-shape

However, should really be a preference I suppose.
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tperry2x
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OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by tperry2x »

micmac wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 9:34 pm tperry2x, I had your latest Mac version installed and working :D
That's great news. Glad it's working for you now.
micmac wrote: Tue Oct 10, 2023 9:34 pm Here is one more to hunt down
Mic
Ah, do you mean the LC icon? Okay - not sure where that's being pulled from, but I will try and locate it.
Many thanks.

Edit: looks like it's being pulled from the revIcons stack with ID 210096
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tperry2x
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by tperry2x »

OpenXTalkPaul wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 3:02 am Please feel free to take my OXT DPE files! I worked a LOT of this out already
Please don't take this the wrong way Paul. I'm not meaning this as a dig at you, more at github.
I can't work out what has changed and what has not. I know you've been adding things throughout OXT, and that's why I've purposefully used OpenXTalk Lite as a test-bed. It's only got a minimal amount of changes, as requested by others.
Hopefully if you like a feature, it can be incorporated into the RC versions, but I haven't used the RC verisons as a base (partly because the only up-to-date version is on the mac), and partly because it contains so many other changes that I don't know what you are in the process of currently actively working on.

Again, that's not me having a go. It's just I'm keeping the lite version minimalist with the rolling changes - and I'll likely go over the same ground I'm sure. Even a text list which says "changed [filename], commented with (Paul) & date - download from (link)" would be great. That's all I need, an FTP server with a changelist.txt

That's probably all anyone needs.

Anyway, – not meaning to offend.
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.91 Windows ...nearly

Post by richmond62 »

Rounded edges.
So:

1. You make yourself an image that is exactly the shape you want your stack to be.
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JF.png
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2. You make yourself a stack, and import the image:
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Screen Shot 2023-10-11 at 17.50.09.png
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Set the stack script as per screenshot.

Save stack. Quite the IDE and reopen it:
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Screen Shot 2023-10-11 at 17.53.24.png
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.91 Windows ...nearly

Post by richmond62 »

If you want the image to be visible in the stack window you must set the topLeft of the image to 0,0:
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Screen Shot 2023-10-11 at 17.55.09.png
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That is a screenshot of 2 stacks with the same windowShape.
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tperry2x
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OpenXTalk Lite 0.92

Post by tperry2x »

Seems a bit out of date.
They do provide an example, so I'll have a look at this (probably late this evening).
There must be another method of rounding the edges of a window?

Edit: difficult to see on the screenshot, but do you think this approach would work? Are there any visual glitches when it's dragged around?
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Re: OpenXTalk Lite 0.91 Windows ...nearly

Post by richmond62 »

any visual glitches when it's dragged around
The only glitches when I drag around are not visual: I keep falling off my high-heels! :D
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MbarShape.png
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"Cut" to size [ 1011 x 47 ].
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