OXT Lite Moving Forward

[richmond62]

Trying out their very few free offerings, can't say I'm that impressed:

I don't know if this is Roger Wagner or the "Boys and Girls" in Kyiv, but it makes me jealous:
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And it does with not a jaggy in sight.

[tperry2x]

It could well be that Hyperstudio is using some native MacOS api to rotate the text, which I'm absolutely sure works a lot better. The issue LC seem to have is they have to make something to support Mac OS at the same time as supporting Windows and Linux. Their 'approximation' (let's be kind and call it that), seems to also be converting the text to SVGs behind the scenes, splitting each character up, and rotating the SVG on the card to approximate rotated text.

[richmond62]

Ah, but HyperStudio is available for Windows as well as Mac. I assume (?) it can rotate text on both operating systems.

[tperry2x]

I would assume so, but no Linux version of Hyperstudio - and I suppose it doesn't export apps to iOS or Android either.
I guess that's the pitfall of trying to support a feature in every OS - you have to find non-native ways to make it work the same across every platform.

[richmond62]

I wonder how long OXT will be able to export to iOS?

LC are shouting about how 9.6.11 can export for iOS 17.

Perhaps we should confine ourselves to a desktop IDE.

[tperry2x]

Quoting myself here:
https://www.openxtalk.org/forum/viewtop ... 4247#p4247
A bit like talking to myself, except other people are also cc'd in.

I wonder @Paul, could the "org.openxtalk.library.macosnativeapptools.lci" be adjusted to colourise the background popup buttons to grey as per in the screenshot, or the post above?

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I assume this was a MacOS 10.15 and above theme change by Apple, as before that, the button text colour was always black, if I recall?

Is it possible to make a "org.openxtalk.library.windows10plusnativeapptools.lci" as well that can support dark titlebars (and out-of-focus / background window - dark titlebars)?

[tperry2x]

LC are shouting about how 9.6.11 can export for iOS 17.
Perhaps we should confine ourselves to a desktop IDE.

I didn't think Apple permitted iPad OS / iPhone OS apps on their app store, which were not built with xCode?
I also thought the only way you could do that was by sideloading them, or signing them as 'development only' and it would permit it on your device, but not onto the app store.

So although their claim that LC can build them, you may not actually be able to deploy them due to Apple's ever tightening rules.

I feel that taking away options for development may be a bad thing, as it may be the only reason some people would look to use OpenXTalk - at least to prototype their app in development mode.
If that feature is missing, it may be the only thing keeping some people onboard with OXT.

As much as I hate to admit it, most kids don't tend to think laptop and desktop first. They have iOS / Android devices in mind as soon as you mention a 'computer'.

Although MacOS is now so close to a desktop version of iOS, I don't know why Apple don't just rebrand MacOS as diOS and be done with it.

(desktop-ios) - diOS
or
iDios (insert a t and O before the S).

[tperry2x]

I'm also thinking of creating a lightweight linux distro, and offering it as a respin ISO that people can run - either on real hardware or simply a VM. This has the benefit of them being able to test OpenXTalk Lite and I wonder if it'd help raise awareness that it's out there. At the moment, I have no documentation to go with it, other than what shows in the dictionary - but I can offer it 'as is' - the logic behind this is to at least ensure it's running on a platform that it's mostly complete on. (Although linux has it's quirks with OXT too). I'd have to check the licensing.............YAWN (as these 'license agreements' all read like BS to me).......... but would see if I'm permitted to include JRE and JDK inside the ISO so that people can build apk apps for android with it too.

Since this is the "moving forward" topic, I'm also wondering about an option in the preferences to pre-populate dragged in controls with code.
Example, you turn on something I might call "include example code within new objects" (or something like that), then if you add a pulldown menu from the tools palette to the card, it might put in something like:

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Might be an idea for those starting off afresh.

[richmond62]

Certainly Windows versions of LC work perfectly on Linux distros via WINE.

[micmac]

A bit like talking to myself, except other people are also cc'd in.

tperry2x we do not know where you are in the process. And which process are you in.

Terry stated that the rebranding was done. So what is holding yo back from releasing 1.0.0?

Mic

[tperry2x]

...what is holding you back from releasing 1.0.0?
Mic

Hi Mic,
Please see:
https://www.openxtalk.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=610

Before we release 1.0, we need some information to go along with it. Every program, regardless of the platform, normally has some documentation and user guides to support the end users.

If we drop iOS support, I'm not that bothered, but it would be great to have it working since it's partially there. It may also serve as an invaluable inroad into producing arm iOS apps that can be opened under the MacOS desktop.
This probably sounds like a wish list.
Just the video, browser, and theme support would be a start.

1.0 implies the release isn't really a beta, which I think this software could still be considered as in it's current state.

[richmond62]

I am well aware of all the work that has gone into this, but notwithstanding that, my MacOS 12 machine is throwing up some 'blips'.

I do NOT believe my minor edit to give me a top drag bar has been sufficient to hose the Dark Mode:
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HOWEVER, let me crack open a virgin version and see:
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No better.

Mind you, on a personal note, I really don't mind not having Darkmode for OXT.

[richmond62]

Terry stated that the rebranding was done.

Um:
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[richmond62]

Someone owes me a few bottles of beer.
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I had to go to a funeral this morning . . . and I remarked to my wife that IF I predecease her I do NOT want a funeral. Obviously she wanted to know why.

I explained that those who liked me would all line up on one side of the coffin, and those who didn't would be on the other side getting ready to chuck eggs!

[richmond62]

as these 'license agreements' all read like BS to me

Luckily we do not live in the United States where to sue some one is about the only thing they do quicker than draw their gun!

Certainly, if you choose to believe what FourthWorld says, you have to build yourself a suit of legal armour like some mediaeval knight before doing or saying anything.

Funnily enough I spent 3 years living in the US, and have visited there subsequently, and although I got up to all sorts of entertaining activities (see posting elsewhere), I never sued or was sued, and the only time anyone pulled a gun on me was when, innocently enough, my wife, our one year old, and I were having a picnic in a field: the farmer who came up on his quad bike pointed a shot gun at us and demanded what we were doing: we explained, and he joined us on the rug for a glass of beer and a couple of cheese sandwiches: perfectly normal as far as I'm concerned.

Oddly enough, beyond policemen and a farmer friend of mine (called 'Cletis Adams'), and the bloke on the quad bike, I never saw any guns at all: to the extent that when I was there I really wondered if what I had heard and read before going to the US wasn't a huge exaggeration.

While I'd quite like to go on holiday to the US again (several times) as I think it is a fantastic place, the guns and the funny laws do make me feel a bit queasy, so I'm glad I live somewhere else.

Mind you, your "shopping list" re why you won't call your very good OXT Lite "1", might mean you are going to be chasing a lot of things for a very long time [let's start with ARM standalones].

Why not "be brave" and release it as OXT Lite 1.0 DP, and the 'DP' means you always have a get-out clause.

[tperry2x]

With all those references to Livecode, you had me wondering if I'd somehow not included the dictionary api that Paul had made. Seems I have, as it also mentions OpenXTalk - so I guess all the Livecode references are there as purely that - references to say where this all came from.

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Regarding the 1.0 release. I was thinking about this earlier. Of course it makes no difference, I mean it's just a number. It doesn't actually change how broken / or how functional it is. So I thought "why am I bothered if it's 1.0 or not?"

Only because, (and arguably, people may well disagree), the convention is for a 1.0 or 2.0 say to be released when it's at a state where everyone is happy with it. I can't say that's the case at the moment. I mean, with the browser widget being broken and the video player non-functional, crashes and inconsistent theming on MacOS, and UAC permissions problems on Windows, I hardly think it's worthy of a non-point release.

Which then got me wondering, why the added focus that everyone seemingly wants to get to 1.0 when it won't change what is fundamentally broken? Let's be open with eachother here, as I thought we were all working from the same sheet. Why the sudden need to get this to version 1.0 as fast as possible? Feels like it's being rushed along before it's ready.

I'm making my own fork of it anyway. That's at version 0.1, and I'm happy to keep it that way. Much like Paul with his OXT RC version, I'm sure he'll move forward with it when he's ready.

By all means, if someone wants to provide a working video player plugin for Linux, and a replacement working browser for it, change the MacOS lci plugin to give grey (100,100,100) backgrounds on the pulldown menu controls, then I'd feel a lot happier as it might be closer to deserving the 1.0 moniker, but I don't see what magical property it would bestow on OXT Lite to call it 1.0. Please, let's have an open discussion into the reasoning behind this?

[richmond62]

grey (100,100,100) backgrounds on the pulldown menu controls

Really?:
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LC 963

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OXT 0.93

MacOS 12

[richmond62]

And, NO, you just go on using whatever numbers you like (just so long as you increment them so we can keep track of versions).

[tperry2x]

grey (100,100,100) backgrounds on the pulldown menu controls

Really?:

Yes, I probably wasn't very clear there - my fault entirely.
What I meant was also further up on this post
https://www.openxtalk.org/forum/viewtop ... 4417#p4417

The dark grey that MacOS 10.15 + seems to use for it's popup menus, when in dark mode.
If you switch to dark mode, go into system preferences, general - that's a good place to see how the UI of the mac and the UI of LC / OXT don't line up. This is why the text of the buttons is light grey in dark mode, as it was supposed to match the MacOS dark theming. However the button background doesn't change to dark grey like it should, so the text is pretty unreadable.

I wasn't meaning to come across as being shirty or anything, just that I was also trying to put myself in the position of someone else new to all of this, who was downloading OpenXTalk Lite for the first time.

Their impression on downloading a 1.0 release would be to expect some kind of finalised feature set, but instead at the moment I just think we have too many known bugs and things that are a bit flaky, as mentioned above, that I'm certainly not happy with.

Don't get me wrong, I know there's been lots of work by everyone to get it where it is now. So none of this is supposed to come across as a dig at anyone. Far from it, just that we know there are bugs to squish.

[richmond62]

I wasn't meaning to come across as being shirty

That's amazing, I don't think I have come across anyone using that turn of phrase in the last 50 years.

I keep mu MacOS 1Moac in Dark mode all the time: but 0.93 stays plain-vanilla all the time.

This is a right bugger, as I would like to try out Dark mode with OXT.

BUT: the odd thing is that going to System Settings and setting Light Mode, windows turn white, but the Mac Menu Bar at the top of the screen remains stuck in Dark Mode:
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So I wonder if my iMac is being odd.

Back in a moment: going for a log out, and then a restart, to see if that makes any difference.