What I'm adding, and what I'm planning next...

[tperry2x]

I was planning on making 0.97 with the 'all guides' in place, the updater (have to test on Windows 11 fully, but new version works on Win 10, so *should* be okay)...
I really want to get my inspector and message box combo finished and wanted this to be part of 0.97. I aim to get these loose ends tidied up before we get to v1.0 at least.

If I can fully eliminate the Window juggling on Linux, and the loss of messagebox focus across *all* distros I can test it on (which is why the new inspector) - as the current one has so many bits tacked on, and goes off here and there in the message path - it needs rationalising and simplifying.

So there's enough to keep me busy at least

[tperry2x]

Because you know I'm more likely to go off and reinvent the wheel, for my own amusement mainly, I've decided that making a revised inspector and unified message box is just too much work. Trying to unpick the existing ones embedded into LCC / OXT is just too much of a task. And frankly, it's such a mess.
I've since found that it's much easier to just get the choice of Linux distro right, and this solves the window juggling issues and the loss of message-box-focus from the outset.

Instead, I'll focus on getting a few loose ends tied up and bundle these into 0.97 sometime before the new year.

[richmond62]

I've since found that it's much easier to just get the choice of Linux distro right

That seems very sensible.

The instructions for OXT Lite Linux should list distros on which it will work, exactly as with MacOS or Windoze.

This is one of my criticisms of the "other lot" insofar they claim that their product will work on Windows, Macintosh, and Linux
with little or no qualifactions (especially re Linux).

Several times in the last 15 years or so I have thought, "Oo, that's looks like an interesting Linux distro." Spent about 2 -3 hours installing the thing and getting it 'the way I like it' only to download LC and find I have wasted a lot of time.

[richmond62]

At one time Andre Garzia suggested the idea of having a Linux distro of LC's own, with LC "baked in" so to speak: but, unsurprisingly, nothing came of it.

[tperry2x]

At one time Andre Garzia suggested the idea of having a Linux distro of LC's own, with LC "baked in" so to speak: but, unsurprisingly, nothing came of it.

I'm uploading a 32-bit OXT-distro as we speak. I thought you might find it interesting in keeping older computers relevant. It'll be an iso you can either burn to DVD and boot, or flash via a memory stick.
It's also got all security patches up to 21-12-23 applied.

It's uploading to dropbox at 25KB/Sec (yes you read that correctly!) This is because people are in the house streaming, so it's being pushed to dropbox stealthily in the background).

I'll let you know when it's there. (approx 16 hours - 2.1GB)

System requirements are:
Processor: Intel x32 processor (Minimum Pentium Pro (1995) / AMD Athlon x32 (1999)
Minimum Memory: 2GB with PAE Memory Management Feature
Recommended minimum storage: 16GB
Video: At least 16MB video card, capable of 1024x768 resolution

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I'll make a 64-bit one as well at some point.

[richmond62]

Well, I'll take that for "a whirl" over my holidays: although I am biased towards Debian derivatives.

[tperry2x]

Oh, I should have mentioned that. It is Debian (Debian 12 Bookworm), but with the Mate Desktop, and Caja Window Manager (OXT compatible, and most Mac-like)

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Granted, not everyone's cup of tea, so I also kept the default light theme. Dark ones are also available and bundled with the distro.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

At one time Andre Garzia suggested the idea of having a Linux distro of LC's own, with LC "baked in" so to speak: but, unsurprisingly, nothing came of it.

I mentioned doing something like this, building a JeOS, Just-Enough-Linux-to-run-OXT) distro, and IIRC my suggestion got poo-poo'd on. But think about it, imagine xTalk would be a native user/macro scripting language for the OS, not just for app dev stuff. Like 'StepTalk (NeXT, OpenStep), but not 'SmallTalk', or like AppleScript but less Lisp based ( would be perfect fit for helloSystem or any other Darwin inspired BSD).

BTW, there's a Linux built with HTML5/JS Desktop/UI, I imagine one could build desktop utilities / UIs for that with HyperSimulator, HA!

[tperry2x]

You can download it from the normal dropbox link
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/75kfz9ho ... 5xdm5&dl=0

"MX-OXT-Lite-Respin-32"
Instructions for creating live media

Probably best to write the iso to DVD for older computers

I've set the iso to not require EFI boot, (as this is designed for older computers in mind), so older bios boot options such as 'CSM' mode / Non EFI is the default.

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If you want to use a USB drive, there's a specific tool for that which is included in the iso:

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https://github.com/MX-Linux/lum-qt-appimage/releases
You can run that on the linux distro of your choice, and point it towards the ISO to create a bootable USB drive for older computers. As dolphinoracle mentions, please make sure you run it as sudo, as per his instructions.

Of course, you can boot off the ISO directly in a Virtual Machine (Virtualbox, VMWare, QEmu etc) - which is probably the easiest for testing purposes, but I'd recommend testing on actual old hardware.
Please make sure you turn on PAE memory support if using a Virtual Machine:

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Admin password for Live media:
1234

There are built-in tools to edit the user password after a successful install, but you can also set a new password with this command in a terminal:

Code: Select all

sudo passwd user

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Finally, I'd recommend deleting the 3 items off the desktop:

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Just in case anyone has plans to spoil their Christmas!
Have fun.

[tperry2x]

I mentioned doing something like this, building a JeOS, Just-Enough-Linux-to-run-OXT) distro, and IIRC my suggestion got poo-poo'd on.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't me - I'd be all for that kind of thing.
Are you referring to anything here?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=95
(I'd say depends on what distro you pick - some really don't play nice. Some are absolutely fine)

...think about it, imagine xTalk would be a native user/macro scripting language for the OS, not just for app dev stuff. Like 'StepTalk (NeXT, OpenStep), but not 'SmallTalk', or like AppleScript but less Lisp based ( would be perfect fit for helloSystem or any other Darwin inspired BSD).

I'd love to see xTalk be offered as a default in a few mainstream distros, perhaps even alongside Geany or python one day, but the windowing issues on xfce make it fairly unusable on some distros.

I'd also love to see it on HelloSystem or Haiku, but neither OS is there stability-wise yet.

BTW, there's a Linux built with HTML5/JS Desktop/UI, I imagine one could build desktop utilities / UIs for that with HyperSimulator, HA!

Or even using the standalone settings in OXT to output to html 5? How functional is that - I'm guessing not very? Is this something that was left a little 'unfinished/unimplemented'?
What is that Linux based on html5 called, please, as I'm intrigued to learn more about it.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

I mentioned doing something like this, building a JeOS, Just-Enough-Linux-to-run-OXT) distro, and IIRC my suggestion got poo-poo'd on.

I'm pretty sure that wasn't me - I'd be all for that kind of thing.
Are you referring to anything here?
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=95
(I'd say depends on what distro you pick - some really don't play nice. Some are absolutely fine)

...think about it, imagine xTalk would be a native user/macro scripting language for the OS, not just for app dev stuff. Like 'StepTalk (NeXT, OpenStep), but not 'SmallTalk', or like AppleScript but less Lisp based ( would be perfect fit for helloSystem or any other Darwin inspired BSD).

I'd love to see xTalk be offered as a default in a few mainstream distros, perhaps even alongside Geany or python one day, but the windowing issues on xfce make it fairly unusable on some distros.

I'd also love to see it on HelloSystem or Haiku, but neither OS is there stability-wise yet.

BTW, there's a Linux built with HTML5/JS Desktop/UI, I imagine one could build desktop utilities / UIs for that with HyperSimulator, HA!

Or even using the standalone settings in OXT to output to html 5? How functional is that - I'm guessing not very? Is this something that was left a little 'unfinished/unimplemented'?
What is that Linux based on html5 called, please, as I'm intrigued to learn more about it.

I'm off for 10 days for the Holidays, I'm probably going to be 'spoiling' a bunch of it by spending time working on xTalk things, of course Holiday obligations may cut into that some. I started working o a Stack-ResourceManager-Palette-thingy last night, and that fairly quickly started to become useful of stack introspection and object extraction so that's consuming my thoughts currently.

For OS macro use xTalk I was thinking more about OpenXION rather than the OXT Community engines or JS/HTML5. OpenXION has syntax to 'do tPythonScript as Python' and 'do tShellScript as Bash' in addition to AppleScript (Mac), VBScript (Windows), and I believe JavaScript (JSX / JavaScript for Automation) on macOS, since JSX is an 'OSA' (Open Scripting Architechure) language on macOS.

I use UNetbootin https://unetbootin.github.io or Etcher https://etcher.balena.io or similar to burn boot images to DVD, USB, or SD card on macOS.

I 've also used Ventoy ( https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html ) to Multiple Boot ISO Images from a single USB, which is convenient so long as the images you want to boot work OK with it.

[OpenXTalkPaul]

How functional is that - I'm guessing not very? Is this something that was left a little 'unfinished/unimplemented'?
What is that Linux based on html5 called, please, as I'm intrigued to learn more about it.

I was looking at a Sparky Linux distro, but it was with with JADE desktop rather than the usual XFCE or LXDE or whatever:

https://wiki.sparkylinux.org/lib/exe/de ... de_desktop

https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2019/07/mee ... g-web-tech

How functional is OXT Emscripten Engine? That's tough to answer, depends on what you want to do with it I suppose. It's basically a build of the desktop C++ source but compiled with the Emscripten SDK.

Since there's no 'OS' inside a web browser, there's also no window server ('stacks' are HTML canvas elements), so you have to make your own custom Window frames for Stack windows if you want to be able to move them around and close them, the stack window normal messages seem to work fine. So I had in mind building a widget that could act as a stand-in window frame for times when you ant to have a custom window frame, it would adhere and respond to establish xTalk conventions ('set the decorations of widget "StackFrame" to..."). I think it could be kind-of like 'Morhphic' windows used in Squeak/Smalltalk VM (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morphic_(software) )

'IDE' like syntax works for creating stacks, cards, buttons, widgets, etc.
Widgets and FFI (Javascript) work, 'Web Native' widget creates a separate canvas element in the HTML DOM.

One thing that is a more annoying problem is that they never made timer/ 'wait' syntax functional, this can br worked around by using a JavaScript timer with a call back to the Engine when its time is up. This is one of the things where Hypercard Simulator has an advantage over using OXT Emscripten engine.

There's other things that may be missing or broken (or more accurately, never implemented for web) like setting a cursors (you can uses HTML/CSS Cursors instead).

[tperry2x]

I use UNetbootin https://unetbootin.github.io or Etcher https://etcher.balena.io or similar to burn boot images to DVD, USB, or SD card on macOS.

uNetbootin does work in producing bootable memory sticks with MX Linux.
You can use Etcher, but the memory stick will be read-only, meaning you can't use it for changes to persist across reboots.
https://mxlinux.org/wiki/help-files/hel ... usb-maker/
(better to just use the built in live usb maker)

I've also used Ventoy ( https://www.ventoy.net/en/index.html ) to Multiple Boot ISO Images from a single USB, which is convenient so long as the images you want to boot work OK with it.

I would not recommend using Ventoy with MX
https://www.forum.mxlinux.org/viewtopic ... fa#p636849
This is mainly because Ventoy assumes a distro using systemd, which MX does not turn on as default as it's init system in the interests of speed and efficiency (a bit like Devuan, or any of these https://distrowatch.com/search.php?osty ... ive#simple)

I chose MX as I like the Debian base, yet I like the antiX underpinnings meaning it's frugal and light on hardware. Coupled with the fact that systemd isn't on as default & offers a sudo-systemd compatibility mode (so that linux software that is badly written [to blindly rely on systemd without checking] can still function). I switched out the thunar window manager (as that's known to mess about with window juggling in LCC / OXT) and changed the default session from xfce over to mate (as xfce displays message-box focus issues). I could equally also have used other window managers (probably lxde), but because mate is being used on Linux mint - it is being maintained more regularly with upstream patches.
Also, as MX linux is one of the few 32-bit distros still actively being maintained for security updates, this is also why I decided it was a good choice. It additionally includes a great suite of user-configuration tools and remastering options. It's now being developed in the USA as well as Greece jointly by the MX-community.

Anyway, this combo should work well and keeps the system lean enough to be burnt to DVDs for installation on legacy hardware.
Hopefully this proves a useful distro as a way to get OXT-Lite to computers that otherwise would not be able to run it.
As mentioned previously, if this keeps a few more things out of landfill, then all the better as far as I'm concerned.

edit: 29-12-23 - I'm also (slowly) uploading a x64 bit version for anyone's amusement as well. (Not just because of my personal preference toward Linux), but for non-biased reasons too: this should be able to run on anything that is 64bit intel / AMD and is capable of UEFI booting (keeping more computers out of the e-waste landfill, something I feel strongly about).
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/ztkf1aa3 ... ucxvc&dl=0

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[tperry2x]

I know this is off-topic, but did you know if you run:

Code: Select all

popup field "popmenu" at the mouseloc

you can crash the IDE instantly?

[richmond62]

"popup" . . . 'tis new to me: what is that used for?

[tperry2x]

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Doing stuff like this. To get it to work, you have to put the field in a substack, then popup the substack.
But you should be able to just popup the field like you can a button.

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[tperry2x]

Just making sure the splash isn't closed before the IDE has finished loading, but also keeps the user informed about what it's doing (a bit like Paul's OXT RCx versions) on the splash screen:
https://www.tsites.co.uk/otherstuff/splash.mp4

[richmond62]

Dunno if that is a Linux distro in your movie: but round these parts (MacOS 12) OXT Lite takes a fair bit longer to launch . . .

Irrelevant remarks:

Funny How Sean Connery, Patrick Swayze, and Richard Dreyfuss all had less talented brothers who managed to have ho-hum acting careers on the basis of their brothers' success.

[tperry2x]

Dunno if that is a Linux distro in your movie: but round these parts (MacOS 12) OXT Lite takes a fair bit longer to launch

Well, yes it would do.
Catalina is an order of magnitude faster than Monterey & above.

Anyway, that is my main computer and it's no slouch - although it probably won't beat an M2 mac.

Of course it's linux - you know me, what else would it possibly be?

[tperry2x]

Have also added the text menu > size > bigger / smaller (credit to Paul for this idea)

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The reason why is: https://www.openxtalk.org/forum/viewtop ... 5413#p5413