OpenXTalk Forums

https://helloworld.raspberrypi.org/issues/17

page 53

This is, largely, a distillation of what I have been banging on about since 2001.

I love that underused word guff.

Read the article, short and to the point. Nice.

The only thing I'd argue with there is the "direct decendent", it's more an illegitimate child's grandson, but why argue over that when it's pretty much the last living relative.

an illegitimate child's grandson

I think you may be looking for the bast*rd in the wrong place.

Please also remember that that article is pitched at English Primary school teachers who are not always the brainiest
sandwiches in the mixed metaphor and have been spoon-fed the crap that everything must be dumbed down to the
point of near inanation and always, bloody always, must be "fun".

Over the last 5 years I have had to cope with 3 children who have returned to Bulgaria with their Bulgarian
parents having been born in England and been to English Primary schools:

Spelling doesn't matter.
Punctuation doesn't matter.

Or, as one child said, "Our teacher weren't bothered, we just had to tell our stories."

"bothered' was pronounced 'bovvered' . . . strewth!

I am a raving snob about English grammar and spelling in my ESL classroom at least,
and unlike some people who want to let anything go, I see nothing that wrong with that snobbery.
I also believe that inculcating the idea that everything must be 'fun' is, ultimately, both educational
and socially destructive. Learning can be fun, but a lot isn't, and
normally learning is fun as a by-product, not as the central focus of what has to be taught.

Having had a reply from the editor of 'Hello World' thanking me for my article this is how I replied:

'Having "made a noise" about LiveCode I would very much like to do a series of double spreads taking people
through basic programming tasks with readers . . .'

You never know, they might take the bait.

Way to go @Richmond. I love how this topic and first post a visitor or user reads today includes broad insults at entire professions, just like you negatively characterise all people who live in particular nations in some of your other posts.

It is like you are actively seeking to offend, and discourage participation.

I wish you continued success with this, you are doing a great job, it is working.

you negatively characterise all people who live in particular nations in some of your other posts.

Tut, tut!

We are all aware of a few things if we stop and think:

1. Political correctness is not very useful when push comes to shove.

2. National stereotypes are ONLY stereotypes, and individuals vary considerably, however national stereotypes
do have their place.

3. I believe that God/Evolution/something else gave us all reasonably decent brains, and if we choose to use them
to see round the "corners" resulting from national stereotypes ansd stereotypical thinking, rather than just
following the other sheep that is the best way of showing gratefulness for those brains we have been given.

4. I am not actively seeking to offend, but as an awful lot of people have become very snowflakey indeed
they probably are offended:

Many years ago, when I was 13, a Maths teacher was demonstrating how to do matrix transformations by
tapping out patterns on a grid in his socks on the table in the classroom, and I could not "get it", and he
said, "Stop being a cretin and use the brain that God gave you."

Unlike the milksop age we now seem to be in, that did NOT "traumatise" me, it made me want to fight back,
so I stopped being a cretin (i.e. sitting there an observing passively), and said, "OK, Sir, its my turn." took
off my socks and got up on the table, made a complete mess of things, at which point he turned to the other
children in the class and said, "This boy's got balls!" and proceeded to make everything very clear to me.

5. The simple fact is that after 32 years (that's a long, long time) of being an educator from Primary to
University level I have noticed that a very large percentage of would-be learners sit around like cabbages
waiting to be spood fed when they really need to stand up and say, "OK, Sir, its my turn."

6. The other thing I notice is that after people have got their "bit of paper" to pin on the wall (my bits
of paper are currently beautifully framed on the wall of our downstairs toilet) they retreat back to a
state of mental passivity and do not continue learning and actively investigating and trying out new things.

If people cannot stand up to the odd "kick in the pants" that is not my problem and I am not going to
pander to softies.

7. The fact is that education right across the world, with obvious exceptions, has been dumbed down
from systems where learners are actively expected to participate to ones where learners are meant to
"have fun", be spoon-fed, and not develop critical faculties, ways of assessing the value of any information
they encounter, and put the information that HAS value to good use, and reject the information that is
either valueless or substandard.

Of course as there has also been a loss of trust in authority and experience generally all the above
will probably just be seen as the "puff" of a 60 year old fart rather than an educator with many years
of hands-on experience.

I can't comment on UK schools because I don't know much about them, but as a parent I have some issues with US schools.

I grew up in a lower to middle class region just outside of Philadelphia, listening to everything from thrash metal and hiphop to symphonic and progressive Rock (the snobbiest of all Rock), so I think I'm OK with any language / communications methods that gets an idea across to a wide variety of people. I can handle language differences. "Colours" or "colors" makes little difference to me because I'm not a code compiling computer program, words like "faggot" are a bit more problematic. I believe that ideas are more important.

I do think that susan is laying things on with a trowel.

richmond62 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:14 pm I do think that susan is laying things on with a trowel.

As you requested elsewhere I read all your of response. I was simply making an observation about a possible effect your unnecessary off-topic additions to conversations. I don't know why you sent me a private message implying a "fight" is in the offing.

But when you contribute to topics and feel compelled to add Irrelevant editorial musing with your views on the state the world, it does little to promote the forward motion of OpenXTalk and to encourage a welcoming community.

As a baby community that is only making first steps, I don't understand how your rants add any value. (Unless they are in an off-topic area.)

By the length of your defensive reply, it is easy to see who the true snowflakes are.

unnecessary off-topic additions to conversations

Whether they are unnecessary or not is a judgement call.

I don't know why you sent me a private message implying a "fight" is in the offing.

1. "fight" was in inverted commas making it clear I had no intention of having a fight.

I don't understand how your rants add any value.

I wonder when I posted a 'rant': if offering a strong opinion is a 'rant' then we can all go home,
sew our lips together, and the world will go to hell in a handcart of mush.

I am not asking anyone to agree with my opinions; what I would like to point out is that they have
been formed over 35 years as an educator and computer programmer. That must, surely, give them some
value. What is more, I do not see many other people who want to get involved, or state opinions on
many of these topics.

I guess we both have strong but differing opinions about what is helpful or appropriate content for this forum. I want to move on from this and have decided to leave.

If you and The Team think that statements such as these:

If people cannot stand up to the odd "kick in the pants" that is not my problem and I am not going to pander to softies.

English Primary school teachers who are not always the brainiest sandwiches in the mixed metaphor

make for a welcoming community, this is not a place I want to hang around.

I expect, in months to come @Richmond will be moaning about how people come and and go, and why are we "true believers" of Hypercard the only ones who stay.

susan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:06 pm But when you contribute to topics and feel compelled to add Irrelevant editorial musing with your views on the state the world, it does little to promote the forward motion of OpenXTalk and to encourage a welcoming community.

As a baby community that is only making first steps, I don't understand how your rants add any value. (Unless they are in an off-topic area.)

I took that as a suggestion, since Richmond's article is about LiveCode, I agree and so moved this thread to the Off-Topic area.

I do hope that no one coming to these forums will feel in any way intimidated, by language level or anything else, and then not want to get involved. I'm not an elitist of any sort.

susan wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:14 pm I guess we both have strong but differing opinions about what is helpful or appropriate content for this forum. I want to move on from this and have decided to leave.

If you and The Team think that statements such as these:

If people cannot stand up to the odd "kick in the pants" that is not my problem and I am not going to pander to softies.

English Primary school teachers who are not always the brainiest sandwiches in the mixed metaphor

make for a welcoming community, this is not a place I want to hang around.

Please don't let a difference of opinion, and particularly one that's not related to xTalk, drive you away.

Currently "the team" is basically just me and I'm rather used to Richmond's Guff and other unpopular opinions from various sources, so I might not recognize that this could potentially be a big turn-off for newcomers (thanks for pointing that out).

I will say that I am a fan of freedom of speech, and of course only unpopular speech needs protecting. I don't know how Seth, who is too busy right now but actually owns this site, feels about this, but my hard-limits are bigotry and hate-speech, which I really don't think Richmond's opinions, while they may be off-topic and/or controversial, qualify as.